HaindavaKeralam - Is “ Copying ” “ Inculturation” ?

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Is “ Copying ” “ Inculturation” ?
29/07/2011 00:04:39  GSK Menon

Regular press reports keep appearing about new imitations of Hindu temple customs, rituals, and rites by the Catholic Church in India, especially Kerala. A standard excuse for these imitations is that it is “inculturation”.

               What is inculturation ? It is defined by the Church itself as the creative and dynamic relationship between the Christian message and culture or cultures.There could not have been a more vaguer definition for stealing !

               Let us examine the historical background for inculturation. When St.Paul set up Christianity as a new religion and started despatching converters to different parts of the globe, Christianity confronted several well established religions and cultures. A bland desert religion was unable to attract new entrants. For example, the Roman civilization, the Inca civilization etc, but the populations were converted at sword point. However , the populations had great difficulty in forsaking their old religion and culture. Christianity was a bland religion, no dancing, singing, music, nothing was permitted. The Romans believed in great celebrations with pomp and show. They observed December 25th as Saturnine Day, with lavish festivities. Under great pressure from the local Romans, the Church turned a blind eye to the festivities. In course of time, instead of Saturnine Day, it was simply substituted as Christ’s birthday. This is the earliest instance of the church stealing another religion’s festival and appropriating it as theirs. Even Christianity itself saw its foundation being built on a Pagan festival. This is the reason why many fundamentalist Christian sects do not observe Christmas.

                     Another problem faced by the Church was the absence of an official language. Islam has Arabic language, Hinduism has Sanskrit, but Christians have no formal religious language. During the period of Christ, the language spoken was Aramaic. This died long time back. Hence the early Christians had no language to conduct their affairs. Go to any Mosque anywhere in the world, all rituals are in Arabic, go to any Hindu temple, Sanskrit is used. Because Christianity developed a strong base in Rome, the Latin language was borrowed. Even today, the churches in Kerala use Latin. Incidentally, this also exposes the canard of St.Thomas. St.Thomas, according to Kerala Padres came from W.Asia directly to Kerala, that means he knew only Aramaic language, but there is no trace of this language in Kerala !

                      Thus Christianity borrowed the local language. This presented a great difficulty. The local language describes the local beliefs, if a foreign religion borrows a local language it will result in total confusion. Thus, when Christians use Hindu names like Nirmala, Amala, Vimala etc to describe a Jewish lady, it should not be forgotten that there are Hindu goddesses who are legal owners of that name since time immemorial. The Christian defence is that these words mean “pure”, “unsullied” etc and therefore they are using it. But think, if Islam started using local language, they also have gods who are called as “pure” “unsullied” etc, they have a specific Arabic expression for that. Had they also started using Nirmala, Amala, Vimala, then what would be the confusion ? Islam realized long time back that using a foreign language would lead to utter confusion and chaos, that is why they have permitted only Arabic language for conducting their religious affairs. Here also, Christians tried to create confusion, in Malaysia, they started calling Christ as Allah, just like they are calling him Parameshwar, Mahesh, Prajapati etc in India. The Malay Muslims recognized the mischief and forbid the Christians from misusing the word Allah. Hindus also need to aggressively prevent misuse of the names of their Gods & Goddesses by the Catholics (it is only the Catholics who indulge in copying and imitations. Other denominations are very strict).

                              By inculturation, the cultural sensibilities of the converts are respected. In India, conversions were effected by the English, French,Dutch,Portugese, in all these cultures for example, kissing was permitted between the bride and the bridegroom openly in the church on wedding day. However, out of respect for the Hindu tradition of not publicly displaying affection, the church accepted non-kissing, this is one example of inculturation.

Similarly, Westerners come to church wearing shoes or other footwear, but Hindus do not do that. So the first wave of converts were exempted from wearing footwear inside church.

The practice of kneeling and praying was not there among the early Christians in W.Asia and Rome, this was a Heathen practice done before kings and royalty. This was borrowed by the Christians,

Nowadays, especially in Kerala, the catholics are indulging in rampant copying. Is there any sanction for such copying ?

Use of Hindu Nilavilakku:
The favourite activity of Padres is lighting Nilavilakkus. This is what the Bible says:
New International Version
“Aaron’s sons Nadab and Abihu took their censers, put fire in themand added incense, and they offered unauthorized fire before the LORD, contrary to his command.”
King James Bible:
And Nadab and Abihu , the sons of Aaron,took either of them his censer, and put fire therein, and put incense thereon, and offered strange fire before the LORD,which he commanded them not”.
Thus it can be seen that lighting Nilavilakku is totally unauthorized by the Bible.

Use of Hindu Temple musical instruments:

The New Schaff Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge, Samuel Macauley Jackson – the organ was a means of enjoyment by society in general, its use was rejected in early Christian circles.
A History of the Christian Church, Lars P. Qualben –“Singing formed an essential part of Christian worship, but it was in unison and without musical accompaniment.

St.Basil, expressly condemns music. Gregory the Great absolutely prohibited the use of musical instruments.

Dancing
Dancing was the primary factor in John the Baptist’s beheading. Dancing activities are not permitted by Seventh Day Adventists, Brethern and Pentecostal denominations.

Thus, all the imitations, copying and plagiarism being indulged in by the catholics have no sanction in the Bible whatsoever.Therefore copying is not inculturation. Copying is simply stealing.

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None 10/04/2012 14:08:08	The truth none regrets converting to Christianity, otherwise they can convert back. Religion is a personal choice. Why are you so much concerned about other's belief? Live and let live. Kerala is the best place in India. I have lots of Hindu friends. They have no problem.
Krishnan 27/10/2011 13:02:56	The Truth Now, about Jesus sitting in 'padmasanam' like Hindu saints.He can actually sit and he knows yoga.How? i will tell you.Before that one question to all Christians.Is the entire life cycle of Jesus is mentioned in your Bible? I mean when he was 5 yrs old, 10 yrs old, 20 yrs old? 30 yrs old? 50 yrs ? 60 yrs? and his death? IF not why? If you search the answer for this you will reach to the point ' How christianity started'( In Quran and Bible whatever is mentionedis just copy of four Vedas )
Krishnan 27/10/2011 12:50:58	The Truth Dear Christian brothers...when you do an argument think about the truth.You guys are not from Rome or Italy.May be you name is John,Stephan,Jancy but you know your grans fathers grand father's name? It will be Raman,Krishnan or Sarojini !!! Can you Deny the fact?Now, Christ is not an Indian so obviously he cant tell you about Nilavilakku and Kodimaram :)...and about putting sindhooram on forehead! To be frank you all guys are Hindus who are regretting about the mistake done by your grandfathers by converting. I am not making fun of you Christians.But understand one thing...just as we cant grow a jasmine plant in desert and lotus on a mud pot.Crishtiany cant be followed at its full in India...because its not our culture.Every one started from here, and one day everyone will come back to this.
K.Jayalakshmi 17/08/2011 23:18:00	is copying inculturation Inculturation is like pickpocketing, how can you steal from others and openly display it as part of your religion ? I know that many Christians are ashamed about this concept. We should keep reminding the Christians that they are following a Hindu temple ritual. Their faces become small when we point out that. 5
Sunil 17/08/2011 18:23:00	Crucify him Crypto deserves to be crucified like the Jew on the stick. We shall raise him to prophethood this way. 5
Indira Oorath 17/08/2011 08:52:45	Inculturation should make your blood boil Remember what Swami Vivekananda said, "My blood boils when I see a foreigner converting my brother." Your blood should also boil when a Christian convert uses inculturation to popularize and gain legitimacy for his vile cult called Christianity. 5
Ajith Kumar 16/08/2011 22:20:15	Is copying inculturation If one goes to America, it will be surprising to see that Christians there are burning their dead bodies. An average American christian cannot afford a church graveyard, it is so expensive. Even Christ cannot save him from church expenses. Therefore cremation is the only way out. In Kerala, land has become a precious commodity, there is no place for the living, how can huge graveyards be built for christians and muslims ? They also need to follow the practice of burning like Hindus. Such a practice can be called inculturation. Simply copying and xeroxing Hindu temple festivals is not inculturation. 5
Damodaran Nair 16/08/2011 02:27:48	Is copying inculturation Crypto needs to read History to learn the sordid truths about conversion. The early Christians converted and killed their victims, this was done to prevent the convert from using Heathen and Pagan customs to worship the Christian God. During the Inquisition in Spain and Goa, the Christian priests used to baptise babies and thereafter dash their heads on rocks and kill them and claim that they have directly gone to Christ. Goa Inquisition is a very recent fact of History, perpetrated by Francis Xavier. He was burning Hindu men women and children in the name of his Jesus. The helpless Hindus were forcibly converted and immediately thereafter burnt so that their souls may ascend to Heaven as pure Christians. My blood boils when I see the nonsensical copying done by the converted christians and people like Crypto writing utter stupidity that there are no Hindu names, Sanskrit names are not Hindu names and such other idiotic statements. Fabrications of St.Thomas and his arrival in Kerala are all meant to rewrite and whitewash History. Read History and the trauma our Hindu ancestors underwent to resist this evil religion from the deserts of Jerusalem. 5
Crypto 12/08/2011 02:26:44	Copying @Ganga, How can I prevent a convert Christian from praying to Hindu Gods, if he/she likes it? I cannot do that. Let every Convert Christian pray to Hindu Gods if they want. I am no way bothered about that. At the same time, I cannot stop anyone if they want to convert to Christianity. 5
Ganga 12/08/2011 01:11:40	To crypto Crypto, can you prevent a convert christian from praying to Hindu Gods? No one can change another human beings' faith or beliefs...Stop converting and then copying Hindu culture. 5
Crypto 11/08/2011 09:55:00	Copying @GSK Menon, But I am not convinced that you have become enlightened. I do not think any Christian in kerala will claim these inculturated/copied things are Christian in origin. They are defenitly not Christian; and are Hindu or Indian in origin. If the law permits they can keep /practice these rituals. Your logic that All sanskrit names are Hindu names is a pure joke and will find its market only amoung fanatics/ignorants. Can you prevent a convert Christian from speaking his/her mother tongue? By your arguement, you are trying to mislead not only Hindus but also Christians but you are not going to succeede because the mother tongues of almost all people in India have been deeply indebted to sanskrit. 5
GSK Menon 10/08/2011 22:42:22	Is copying inculturation Crypto, now you have become enlightened. Your statement "Many christian girls in Kerala use English names like Rose, Mercy, Victoria,Grace etc but that will not make these names christian" is exactly what I am trying to convey. Kerala christians may indulge in all sorts of imitations but at the end of the day the reality is that these are not christian in concept, design, content and meaning. Your next gem"Also many Kerala christians use Sanskrit names", all Sanskrit names are pure Hindu names, just as all Arabic names are Muslim names. A convert christian by sporting a Sanskrit Hindu name is in effect an impostor or impersonator. He is trying to mislead those around him that he is a Hindu. He is offending his acquired foreign faith and his ancestral religion by such acts. 5
Crypto 10/08/2011 10:43:03	copying @GSK Menon, Also many Kerala Christians use Sanskrit names. Will you accept these as Christain names? Majority of the people in any religion are ignorant, but truth is truth even if no person is convinced of it. 5
Crypto 10/08/2011 10:17:07	Copying @GSK Menon, You are proving your ignorance again. Many Christian Girls in Kerala use English names like Rose, Mercy,Victoria,Grace etc. etc., but that will not make these names Christian. The truth is that English Christians use english names, hebrew Christains use hebrew names German Christain will use German names , Tamil Christian will use Tamil names etc. If some Kerala Christains use hebrew, greek, latin, english etc. etc instead of malayalam names, it is their problem and it cannot defeat my arguement. You have rightly observed even the word christ itself is not Christian; Westerners traslated this into greek, ie Christ. My faith may be bankrupt to you but not to me. 5
Ajith Kumar 10/08/2011 04:00:11	Is copying inculturation Because of excess imitations, many Catholics are joining new age Christian movements. Increasing Hindu orientation among Catholic priests is an indication of spiritual barenness in Christian religion. 5
GSK Menon 08/08/2011 03:06:10	is copying inculturation Crypto, your knowledge of your ancestral religion Hinduism and your acquired desert faith appears very minimal. So many many Christian girls in Kerala are sporting the name Sarah and its fashionable variations like Saira, after cutting off the "amma" from Saramma. None of your other convert friends are coming to your rescue. If as you claim Sarah is a Hebrew name and Christians do not use Hebrew names, then what names you will use ? Even Christ is not a Christian name, Crypto ! Is that the reason why you are calling him Parameshwar, Mahesh, Prajapati etc etc. See how bankrupt your alien faith is. 5
Ganga 07/08/2011 07:26:25	Shall we stop? Yes Sunil, why we waste time answering such people. I think the awareness has to start from the root..All the Hindus who make kodimarams and Nilavilakku with the cross, teach kathakali, Mohiniyattam and Panchvadyam to Christians should be made aware that the ridiculous copying can do them no good. The age old method of teaching things by instilling fear of the consequences can also be adopted. We know when the kodimaram of temples need to be changed, the signs are seen in the temple itself. There is a lot of devotion & many days of rituals in reinstalling a kodimaram and we know what is done with the old one when removed....When I see the kodimarams in front of churches I feel very sad, for the ignorance of those Christians. It is not fun, but they will know the consequences sooner or later..Actually we don’t have to do anything, noone can escape from their “Karma bhalam”. 5
Sunil 07/08/2011 02:17:16	Shall we stop? I think this discussion has gone too far. It is better to wind up this since there is a Xian in this forum who is mentally deranged and who cannot control his own thoughts, let alone others. It would be foolish for others to answer to his babblings. 5
Ganga 06/08/2011 19:08:40	crypto "Sarah is not a Christian name" "For me Shiva, Lakshmi etc. etc are not Hindu names".. This "Christian's" word has to be published world wide..... Do we Hindus want his consent to think they are Hindu names? Anyway he declared "he has no objection"..... 5
Ganga 06/08/2011 19:08:40	crypto I would like to meet crypto, the most knowledgeable person in Indian History.. "Sarah is not a Christian name" "For me Shiva, Lakshmi etc. etc are not Hindu names".. This "Christian's" word has to be published world wide..... Do we Hindus want his consent to think they are Hindu names? Anyway he declared "he has no objection"..... 5
Crypto 06/08/2011 09:15:09	Copying @GSK Menon, I am not a CCC, but your knowledge is not complete. "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" is applicable to you. The word Sarah is a hebrew one and except Jewish Christians, other christians have nothing to do with Hebrew. Many 'little knowledge Christians' will vouch that Sarah is a Christian name but i will not agree. @Ganga, For me Shiva, Lakshmi etc. etc are not Hindu names, these words were personified into godhoods and I have no objection if you people think these are Hindu names, but you cannot control my thoughts. 5
G.A.Das 05/08/2011 23:50:14	Is copying inculturation Crypto is indulging in double talk. He is claiming that imitations are only for maintaining peaceful co-existence and imitations have nothing to do with spirituality of christianity. These are highly contradictory claims. By making an idol of Christ and hoisting it on top of an elephant and beating drums and other musical instruments, how are you going to bond with other communities ?Crypto claims that this does not represent the "spirituality of christianity", then what is it ? Physical exercise for the Padres ? A Hindu temple Kodimaram is erected within the church compound and Crypto says it is not for spiritual purposes. At this rate he will say that all the church goers are not going for spirituality. Hindu culture and spirituality are deeply intertwined, it is impossible to delink them.Whoever imitates has to imbibe Hindu spirituality and Hindu interpretation of life. Even a simple act like Namaste, means I bow to the Paramatma residing inside you. In the semetic religions there is no scope for the Paramatma to reside in the Jeevatma.Hence crypto should understand that Hindu culture and religion is a single composite entity. 5
Ganga 05/08/2011 22:12:43	Theere Pediyilla @K V John If Christianity is not insecure in its beliefs, why you people want to do "Vidyarambham" to your kids? Until a few years back, Christian children didn't get it and you were secure with their future. But we the so called "idol worshipping, superstitious who finds God in all Panchabhootha," feel our children's education and life has to start with "Vidyarambham". Why the "SECURE CHRISTIAN" copy the "INSECURE HINDU"s superstitions? Ok, you don't believe a "Kodimaram" can weaken a Church....But do you believe it can strengthen a Church? If not why this imitation? If it is not done with a belief, fear or insecurity, what is the need of having it there? It is the "Jeevadhara" of a temple. If the kodimaram of a Church is just a "nokkukuthi", have a better one...our farmers know how to make beautiful nokkukuthis. We are not afraid of you people..But you better take care.... 5
Sunil 05/08/2011 06:09:10	Happy to note It is indeed heartening to see that most of the Christians in this forum agree with what I said. Simplicity is the trademark of Christianity. What I am going to say has been already said on two occasions, i.e. there is absolutely nothing wrong to go native by the followers of alien religions, but pls. understand that Hindu customs are not just something outwardly. Every Hindu custom has a religious significance attached to some Gods of Hindu mythology. Since Christianity is a monotheistic religion it has some limitations to adopt this thought or spirit attached to the Hindu customs thereby making the whole attempt to indigenize it look silly. It is like a fanatic Hindu celebrating Easter in the name of Lord Krishna or something like that. In Christianity there is only ONE God where as the concept in Hinduism is EVERYTHING is Godly. [Now pls. don't overstretch your imagination on this :-D]. What Christians should do is to make their religion regain its pristine beauty by undoing the prevailing situation. Copying anything without giving credit to its original author is certainly a misdemeanor, if not a felony. 5
Indira Oorath 05/08/2011 06:20:22	Spirituality of Christianty? "Spirituality of Christianity"? Crypto, every one knows there is no spirituality at all in any Semitic desert religion. In fact, the word 'spirituality' cannot be found in any so-called holy book of any of the three desert religions. 5
Ganga 05/08/2011 03:53:46	"Hindu View" @crypto Are you saying the names Krishna, Shiva, Lakshmi, Ganapathy, Parvathi are not Hindu names? Is it only in my thoughts? Ofcourse mine is purely "Hindu View". The Christians too have their view..But I wonder what is the "View" of converts.... 5
GSK Menon 05/08/2011 02:48:06	is copying inculturation Crypto, you are a CCC -Confused Christian Convert, that is why you are stating that Sosamma and Saramma are not Christian names ! Have you forgotten a name called Susan, that is Susan+amma becomes Sosamma, the converts silenced the "n", because they added the Hindu suffix "amma" it became Sosamma. How did you forget the biblical name "Sarah" sarah + amma became Saramma. There are no "so called Hindu names", there are only Hindu names. 5
Ganga 05/08/2011 02:24:14	Copying.... Inculturation for peaceful co-existence? Ridiculous....There was so much peace & unity in the 50s & 60s between Hindus & Christians when Christians followed their own culture. Noone criticized them for their dress, name or worship, though they made fun of Hindus' idol worship. All the rituals of Hindus which Christians once teased are now copied by them. Is it for peaceful co-existence or just survival? 5
Crypto 05/08/2011 00:42:11	Copying @Ganga, Your point is only from a "Hindu View", but remember different people/groups will view/approach the same things in different perceptions. The so-called "Hindu names" are Hindu for you only and you cannot impose that thinking in other's relam of thoughts. What i said is sosamma & saramma has nothing to with Christianity and it is true. I did't say Hindu use it. @Rajan Philip, Personally I do not favour these copying/inculturation etc, but I respect the right of an individual or group to practice/follow any ritual they like, if they are not forbidden under the law of India. Moreover, from a Christian point of view these are just cultural expressions of the land/people with whom they have to maintain a peaceful co-existence . These have nothing to do with the spirituality of Christianity. Do you know your name both Rajan and Philip has nothing to with Christianity/Jesus Christ. Are you insulting Christ? 5
Rajan Philip 04/08/2011 23:04:53	Is copying inculturation ? I really don't understand why our Kerala Christian community is obsessed with bringing Hindu religious customs into the Church ? Do they have any inferiority complex that Christian customs are below their dignity ? Those who want to follow Hindu customs let them go and become Hindus, who is preventing them ? If Christian priests want to follow Hindu temple rituals let them also go and become Hindus, nobody is going to stop them. But why should these people remain in the Church and insult Christ ? My plea to them is do not insult Christ by worshipping Him using the religious customs and rituals of another religion. Has Christ or any of his disciples ever asked you to worship Him by adopting another religion's ways ? Then why are we doing such madness and demeaning Christ. Will we start imitating the Muslims also, do Niskaram in Church, in front of Christ ? Christ gave humanity a simple religion devoid of any fanfare or rituals. Simplicity is the hallmark of Christianity. Why are the Church authorities trying to remodel it on Hindu lines ? The evil of caste system is deeply entrenched in the Church, gold plated Nilavillakkus are flooding Churches, is it not Mammon worship ? Christ took up cudgels against Mammon worship, our priests are encouraging it. Some Churches are sporting gold Kodimarams, Has Christ ever asked his followers anywhere in the world to pray Him by materialistic methods ? We need to ask whether we need a Reformation within the Church to check such religio-cultural invasion ? The Christian clergy should not try to hide behind terms like"inculturation""indianisation" etc. To the common man the whole exercise appears to be cheap imitation. That is why people like Mr.Menon find it easy to ridicule us. I appeal to all Christians not to insult Christ in this manner. Dismantle all these kodimarams and other trappings which are un-Christian. Let candles burn bright in our Churches and simple Christianity flourish 5
Ganga 04/08/2011 18:41:35	Truth of Christianity? @crypto Sosamma & Saramma has nothing to do with Christianity? They are not Christians? Can you find atleast one Hindu with that name? What is the truth of Christianity which make them want to change to pure Hindu [not only Indian}names? Why are they "forced"to do that? Are they ashamed of their names, or to be identified as a Christian? 5
Crypto 04/08/2011 09:22:09	Copying @ Ganga These Sosamma & Saramma has nothing to do with Christianity. If some say these are all Christian, it is only because of ignorance. When Indian people become more and more deeply religious in Christianity & understand the truth , they have no option but to reject Sosamma & Saramma and to accept Ganga & Yamuna. P.Joseph,Sheela Thomas, Thomas Mathew all saying inculturation is not good. Ok no problem , but don't try to make us Syrians. At least you could use the kerala versions like Thoma, mathai, ousep, but you are ashamed. So don't be bother about Indian Christians.You can practise your Christianity, whatever it may be. 5
Ganga 04/08/2011 03:52:30	dress @Joseph, Salwar Kameez was worn by North Indian Hindus, though it was not common in Kerala. I don't agree with sunil, in "chatta & mundu" as young Christian girls wore skirt & blouse and saree too even before 60 years.. But Christians who use kumkum & chandan don't know the religious significance. Do your religion agree with that? "Vidyarambham" has to be banned from all Churches. Nilavilakku with a cross...how funny it looks!!The place of Nilavilakku is in temples and Hindu homes.. Candles in a church too looks divine and beautiful....Don't you, true Christians feel it your duty to protest against these imitations? 5
Ganga 04/08/2011 01:53:23	Inculturation?? ?@crypto, Christians have lost their identity, from the day they started imitating Hindus. The young girls are imitating all that a Hindu girl does. Can you identify a Christian girl from a classroom? Their parents gave them a Hindu name instead of Sosamma, Mariamma or Saramma. Though in uniform they take good care to have a Bindi on forehead, kajal in their eyes and a Tulsi leaf on their hair. ?In my school days, the Christian girls were not allowed to have Bindi. Now they even wear chandan. If they imitated any of the Hindu ways, teachers would punish them. It was easy to identify a Christian girl. We went to school with oily and wet hair from the morning bath while they had neatly plaited hair which was washed once in a week. Their clothes were neatly ironed but they too were washed once a week. Our clothes were crumpled but washed daily. We had bindi, chandan & kajal and a tulsi leaf or jasmine flower on our hair. We were good friends, but none of us wanted to copy anything the Christians did. There was mutual respect. They were not ashamed of their names or identity. ?When did the need for adapting Hindu ways to get recognition start? Is it the insecurity or fear which made them want to look like a Hindu? Many girls these days don’t like to be recognized as a Christian. Why they enter Guruvayoor temple in disguise? Is it what their religion teach? To disobey other people’s beliefs? So Christian religious teaching of imitation and hiding their identity start at home as soon as a baby is born. ?I know a few mothers who are worried about their sons who married Hindu girls. They converted the girls, got married & settled abroad. But these youngsters refuse to Baptise the next generation. So, who has lost their identity? Time will say.....Every action has a reaction...wait and see....The act of converting a young girl is a sin. The next generation will show Dharma and only Dharma wins in the end. 5
P.Joseph 04/08/2011 00:40:31	Is copying inculturation Sunil, why blame Christians alone, tell me how many Hindu youngsters are wearing "pavada", when did salwar kameez come to Kerala, it is now the official dress of Kerala, though we are reluctant to admit it. Which youngster wants to wear "mundu" to college ? So if Christians are not wearing "chatta" and "mundu" is it surprising. Every community is getting Westernised. Almost all Hindus in Kerala have become chicken eaters, is it not ? The problem faced by the Christians is that a section of the priests are bringing into the Church religious practices of the Hindu community. Is this a correct trend ? When religious beliefs and practices of another religion are absorbed it can create changes in the belief system itself. For the business community invoking the devil also is fine but for Priests to start "Vidyarambham" in Churches is not a correct religious practice. Each religion has its own separate identity and this is what distinguishes one religion from another. If certain misguided sects and priests want to undo their originality and instead prefer to copy from other religions, it is demeaning for the entire religion. One sect does a wrong practice but the entire religion becomes an object of ridicule. Catholics need to think whether this approach is adviseable or not, for there will be a fundamental change in the religious perspective itself. 5
Thomas Matthew 04/08/2011 00:32:34	Is copying inculturation Whether copying or inculturation, it has become very embarrassing for many Christians to even talk about it. Christianity was once a simple religion and that was what attracted people to it, but some misguided Priests and business concerns are making it look like a Hinduism clone.In the long run Christianity is going to suffer because of this. There is a need to reform and restore Christianity to its original purity. 5
Sunil 03/08/2011 08:24:56	Christians need to admit the superiority of Hinduism @Sheela. Yes I agree with your contention that all Christians are not copying. But this group is a minority now. Tell me how many of you (including yourself) are wearing "Chatta" and "Mundu". Hardly 30 years back we could identify Christian women by this outfit. Why have you given-up wearing this and limiting it to "Margam Kali" only?. Nowadays you won't see young Christian women wearing it. Is it because suddenly Christians started feeling this is a fashion faux pas?. The hallmark of Christianity is its simplicity. But that has been lost by the influence of Hinduism. What is surprising is that all of a sudden Christians have started loving their "Indian heritage". After all what is Indian Heritage? Why can't Christians openly admit that this heritage has its base on Hinduism?. If you feel that SOME (not MANY)Christians do not approve these developments, then why can't this group of minority Christians exhort the laity to stop copying the Hindu customs?. This is not going to happen for sure because the clergy and Christian businessmen themselves are promoting this copying business. Malayala Manorama is the first paper to commercialize "Vidyarambham" by selling their space for "Vidyarambham wishes" to its readers. Similarly Nazrani gold merchants are the most vocal about "Akshaya Thritiya" nowadays. In churches priests themselves take initiatives to do "Vidyarambham". Nazrani's business acumen is admirable. But this "photostat" business of copying Hinduism makes them look like complete stupids. 5
Sheela Thomas 03/08/2011 02:48:53	Is copying inculturation All Christians are not doing copying. It is only some sects that is bringing bad name by indulging in such practices. But general public is under the wrong impression that all Christians are resorting to copying. Many Christians do not approve of these new developments which is creating a wrong image of the Christian religion itself. 5
R.Subramanian 03/08/2011 02:32:49	Is copying inculturation ? If Jesus is claimed as all powerful then why should he resort to copying from others ? He can establish his so called kingdom based on Jerusalem culture. Why our converts are rejecting Jerusalem culture ? 5
Krishna Kumar 02/08/2011 23:48:02	Is copying inculturation Catholics in Kerala should get self realisation about the limits of their foreign religion. No amount of copying can make a foreign religion into an indigenous product. All their gods are foreigners mostly Europeans. The local products like Alphonsamma are hardly known to Europeans, even if they know, colour prejudice prevents them from acknowledgeing them. Though our local converts take great pains to label so many centres as "national pilgrim centre", "international pilgrim centre" etc nobody in Europe are attracted by them. A foreign product will remain a foreign product. All kinds of copying will not erase its foreign identity. 5
GSK Menon 02/08/2011 23:28:42	Is copying inculturation ? Indira, it sounds hilarious, doshayum chutneyum, to what depths of depravity the converts have sunk to. That is why, christianity is not at all a religion. What the converts are following is Fake Hinduism. 5
Crypto 02/08/2011 09:05:35	Copying @Ravi, When a miniority is trying to adapt more amd more to the ways of the majority, normally the minority will lose its identity and will be merged in the majority.But why you people doubt that the majority will lose its identity? If you doubt, then it must have some points and time alone can tell who will lose their identiy. 5
Indira Oorath 02/08/2011 09:11:13	'Bread and wine' becomes 'dosha and chutney' Believe it or not, I have seen a Malayalam Bible in which the words bread and wine (appavum veenjum) has been replaced by the words "doshayum chutneyum" (dosha and chutney). This is the depth to which the detestable achayans and nasranis will sink in their futile attempt to popularize the dead Jew on the cross. 5
Narayanan Nair 02/08/2011 00:42:32	Is copying inculturation Crypto claims that Christians are free to follow any culture, who said so ? Did your Jesus ever said so ? Read the history of christianity, it has slaughtered millions in the name of the dead jew on the stick. Cultures have been destroyed. Have you heard of the Goan Inquisition and the savagery perpetrated by that pirate called Francis Xavier ? Do you know that he had disgust for anything made out of black rock ? He ordered destruction of Hindu idols because they were made of black rock. Today if he comes to Kerala he will die of heart attack. All what these missionaries had hated are being copied. Your so called Kodimarams are erected on base of black rock, your crosses are made out of black rock. Why and how this sudden love for black rock ? Christianity is a religion without any morals or scruples 5
Amit 01/08/2011 12:14:25	Disguise They just want to popularize Jesus ,in Hindu disguise , In all the translations of Bible they are using Hindu words like Prabhu , Parmeshwar etc , to paint the bearded old man sitting on clods , Front Gate of a large church in Banglore has a "Sanskrit" Sentence engraved 5
RAMANATHANR 01/08/2011 04:46:27	christianity K.V.john, i do not want you to die of ignorance becouse people of no brain will not reach the godhood. so pl read bhagvath gita and hindu scriptures and understand the spiritualism in your old forefathers religion.now you ignored their footstep and blindly follow brainwashing idots. jesus, a jewish man who can not save himself and who has to fight with sattan as he failed to finish him on his first coming , how can jesus finish sattan again on his second coming? how will he absolve your sins committed.where will yr soul lying till then? how come your skeletional remains lying below the earth raise up on jesus second coming ? how and where it will join with your soul? A man made religion of just 2000 years ago still is not able to bring the figure of 'Father god" but just show the figure of one jewsih man who said in bible' i am the man, i am the messenger sent by god besides just showing only the sattan. So pl lookback your forefathers religion of hindu dharma which was given by godhimself with its age unknown. just see the photo of Ram-sethu bridge which was taken by NASA giving its age as 17.4 lacs years which ramayana said that Lord ram built this bridge. Ramayana was written many years even during lord ramas period itself by sage valmiki. So if u believe truth and science, just trust NASA and if so come back to hindu dharma. 5
K.M.Gopinath 01/08/2011 04:16:20	Is copying inculturation Catholics like John who have no scruples about copying from Hinduism should also introspect whether Christianity is a genuine religion or not ? After reading the article I feel that if Christmas itself is borrowed then the existence of Christ itself is in doubt. 5
Jeevanandam 01/08/2011 00:54:42	is copying inculturation K.V.John, it is the insecurity inherent in Christianity that is driving them to copy from other religions. Every religion prides itself in its own philosophy, culture, language and traditions. Christianity is the only religion that is devoid of everything. It is almost dead in Europe. How long can it hold on ? 5
Girija Soman 31/07/2011 23:51:24	Is copying inculturation K.V.John must be out of his senses to state that Hindus and Muslims worship emptiness. The fact that Catholics are copying left, right and centre, from Hinduism, is a clear indication of the barenness of their religion. A tortured man, helplessly screaming on a cross is not our conception of religion or God. Since you are copying our religious emblems and symbols, what is the harm in starting to worship your ancestral Gods also. Has any foreign theologian given you permission to only copy but not pray ? 5
K.M.Gopinath 31/07/2011 23:50:55	Is copying inculturation Crypto, what is this theological sanction that you are talking of ? To steal some other religion's symbols and icons, which theological sanction is needed ? Do not try to fool us by claiming that some white man sitting in Rome gives you sanction to use Hindu religious symbols. 5
K.M.Gopinath 31/07/2011 23:38:24	Is copying inculturation Crypto, what is this theological sanction that you are talking of ? To steal some other religion's symbols and icons, which theological sanction is needed ? Do not try to fool us by claiming that some white man sitting in Rome gives you sanction to use Hindu religious symbols. 5
K.M.Gopinath 31/07/2011 23:24:42	Is copying inculturation Crypto, what is this theological sanction that you are talking of ? To steal some other religion's symbols and icons, which theological sanction is needed ? Do not try to fool us by claiming that some white man sitting in Rome gives you sanction to use Hindu religious symbols. 5
Indira Oorath 29/07/2011 10:07:15	Illa, pediyilla, John achayan No, K V John, we are not afraid of cross-weilding barbarians from the Middle Eastern deserts like you. You won't live a single day on sacred Hindu land when we decide to unsheath our swords. It is achayans who are worshipping emptiness, not followers of Sanatana Dharma. Go to Europe, you won't find a single worshipper in any church on Sunday morning. After all, how can a man, who could not save himself, now save others? 5
sanal kumar 29/07/2011 09:06:45	Is “ Copying ” “ Inculturation” ? Let them adapt to Hindu ways.The main cause of armed conflicts between hindus and muslims result from the islam's reluctance to accept our culture.Christian priests are educated ,they even learn Geeta .People go to malayaatoor in saffron.christians could merge in to our culture. 5
Sunil 29/07/2011 08:03:10	Crypto resurfaces This Crypto-christian always makes some baseless arguments. If Christianity is not as what Mr. Menon has put it by quoting some primary sources of Christianity authored by well-known Christians, Crypto has the moral obligation of countering these "allegations" with some valid historical facts. Instead he vaguely says Christianity is not just about Amala or Vimala as decided in the first Synod. Unlike temples, churches have well-documented records about historical events. Crypto should come up with evidence preserved regarding the decisions, conclusions, and plan of actions (is it conversion, copying,proselytizing?)as decided in the Synod. Instead of blabbering about silly things like Hindus using undergarments which he claims as Christian inventions, he should come up with examples of Hindu imitation of Christian religious customs. Can he cite at least one? 5
Ravi 29/07/2011 08:01:34	Copying. In Dharmaram College at Bangaluru, we can see statue of Jesus sitting in 'padmasanam' This is usually done by Hindu Rishis and Idols of Sri Budha can be seen in that posture. Bible does not say that Jesus practiced Yoga. In some churches in north India you can see boards mentioning holy mass as Puja. Naming in local language is not copying. But following the rituals is certainly copying. Bharathasnatyam, Kathakali, Krishnattam etc are rituals in art form. Imitating these by non believers in Hinduism in their own form is copying. Hindu rituals are not patented. So any one can follow. But the way those are followed creates a doubt that they are making a 'no-difference area' fist which can be later used for conversion. I fail to understand one thing: to follow the so called 'simple faith' why there are so many denominations(there may be more than hundred and on the increase)? 5
K V John 29/07/2011 07:56:56	Pediyaano? Unlike Islam or Hinduism, Christianity is not insecure in its beliefs. We know that saying prayers in ones mothertongue, or lighting a candle at the church or raising a kodimaram will not weaken the Church. Muslims might be insecure, Hindus might be insecure, for what they worship is the emptiness and ignorance within. 5
Crypto 29/07/2011 04:11:13	Copying Mr.Menon, Christianity is not someting which you think. Its a simple faith & Christains are free to follow any culture they like.It has theological sanctions. It is decided in the very first Synod of Church under the leadership of Apostles.( read the acts of apostles) Christianity is not about amala,vimal,nirmala, or kodi maram or lotus or bharatanatyam ot kathakali. All Christians are free to use it not to use it. If these are prohibited for Christians under under the law of India,you have a vaild point. Otherwise stop this non sense. 5
Desert Fox 29/07/2011 02:52:14	Is copying inculturation Christ was a non-vegetarian. He is advertising that lamb meat is tasty. 5
hrr 29/07/2011 00:59:15	christ with the lamb in his arms This is what we come across to imagine a christ who is suppose show affection and preach non violance. But why christians permit to eat lambs' meat? They may give a kamala[lotus] in his hand. In due cource of time they may give several instruments and weapons finally creating a Hindu god to worship and the Hindus then why not accept it as christian cult, the off shoot of Hinduism. 5

It is not totally baseless if Hindu leaders fear that 'Indianisation of Christianity' is meant to bring about 'Christianisation of India'.

Nitya Chaitanya Guru